Senses Initiated Lucid Dream Ssild

Originally Posted by Matt1: You know, when you get those random thoughts during the cycles sometimes, is it possible to get those random thoughts in FA in the same manner as when awake? I had assumed that such thoughts would be vivid and perceptible when asleep or dreaming, not just thoughts, if that makes any sense, but I could be wrong. Also I've assumed I did not go directly into FA because I could feel my whole body exactly the same as when awake. Should I still do a reality check (and possibly cancel out some of the good effects of SSILD by moving, if that is possible)? -------- Usually in an FA our thoughts can immediately turn into images like you've said. However, there is something peculiar about some of the FAs generated by SSILD. They can be so realistic that no amount of visualization will work, and if you focus too much on your physical body you WILL wake up seamlessly and move your physical body instead. This type of FAs usually happens when you feel you are waking up frequently. I suggest you read my other post about Focus Point, which might help when encountering this kind of FAs next time.

Originally Posted by bluremi: I've been repeating my same procedure but cannot replicate my previous success. I do the cycles and my mind wanders but I manage to finish, then I go to sleep and wake up a few hours later without remembering any dreams. Any advice? -------- Did you get up and allow yourself to stay awake for a while? Anyway, take a look at this post. I think it might help: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post1988470

Originally Posted by bluremi: It has not worked for me after my initial success. I am still experimenting to find out what works. Right now I'm focusing on staying awake during WBTB longer so that I don't drift away in the middle of the cycles. I find myself stopping and starting once they get to the long cycle stage, I think these interruptions are hurting the effectiveness of the technique. -------- Staying awake longer will definitely help, but you also need to be more aware of the FAs. Do you find yourself waking up many times after the exercise? If you do, chances are some of those awakenings were FAs.

Originally Posted by VagalTone: Im not sure about this....i have 3 or + awakenings per night, can i repeat SSILD cycles on different awakenings ? -------- Most definitely. And should you find you have even more awakenings after performing SSILD, it is a hint that they may be FAs. If if they are not, performing more cycles during these awakenings will likely result in WILDs.

Originally Posted by Stevano: Hey I've recently started Lucid Dreaming and found that your technique works great! I've had 14 or so Lucids in a around a month. The only problem is that when i started out, i had super vivid and long lucids but recently all of mine are very blurry, and fade out in less than a minute. My dream recall seems to be suffering too. I keep a dream journal and everything and i've tried everything during the dream to try and stabilize it, like spinning, staring at my palms, crawling, telling the dream to be more clear, rubbing my palms etc. but nothing seems to be working. What do you think could be the problem? Thanks in advance! -------- Sounds like you are on the right path. Frequency is up, and you understand the stabilization techniques. Are you doing anything unusual with your sleep schedules? Such as going to bed late? Getting up earlier? Are you well rested and in good physical condition? Are you under stress? These are the questions you should ask yourself as they all may impact your dream recall and vividness of your LDs. Another suggestion is to take a couple days of break. 14 LDs in around a month is quite an achievement already so no need to stretch it. You might also consider taking some supplements. After all, many of which are "brain food", and you don't want to starve your brain!

Originally Posted by rynkrt3: I have been an on-and-off lucid dreamer for the past few years. Never finding true success with any method I've tried. I have tried SSILD a few times with no success. I like the simplicity and sustainability of this technique and would like to master it. I have a few clarifications to ask. For anyone who has had repeated sucsess with this method, what is your typical SSILD attempt like? I usually WBTB for X amount of time, lay down and relax for a few minutes then cycle until my random thoughts start to take over. I then fall asleep. Never had any results. If anyone is willing to help me improve my SSILD I would greatly appreciate it, as lucid dreaming is a huge interest of mine but it has been on the back burner for quite a while with life getting in the way and this method seems promising without taking to much time out of my daily life. Thanks -------- Sounds like you are performing the technique correctly. Assuming that is true (I can't tell for sure without more details given), then you should watch for False Awakenings. Do you wake up multiple times after doing SSILD? If the answer is yes, then chances are those were FAs, or trances which can be easily manipulated into a WILD. If the answer is no, then it is likely you have not had sufficient sleep prior to doing the exercise. Hope this helps and good luck!

Originally Posted by Scizorist: Hello everyone, this is my first post ever on this forum and was motivated by my very first lucid dream as a result of this method. I've been trying to have a lucid dream for what seems like almost 2 months now trying different methods such as MILD and WILD but it never seemed to work. I read this method on the forum LITERALLY 2 hours ago, decided to test it out and it worked successfully the FIRST TIME??!! I became lucid via DILD midway into a normal dream but as soon as I realized I was dreaming I thought "oh my god I need to stabilize the dream" and started rubbing my hands together. However unfortunately the dream faded a few seconds later because I assume I became too excited. Anyways big thanks to CosmicIron for developing and explaining such a straightforward and simple method that worked for me personally on the first attempt! -------- Wow that feels good I have been quite busy with a personal project lately so I didn't log in for some time. It's always good to see someone put the technique to use and have success with it! I'm still watching this thread closely so should you have any questions do not hesitate to ask. Cheers

Originally Posted by reveriemyst: Hi, I just wanted to sincerely thank CosmicIron and everyone involved in developing/sharing this technique. This has worked amazingly well for me right off the bat, as opposed to DILD, MILD, WILD (just couldn't get the hang of those ). So a big THANKS! -------- My pleasure, as always.

It has come to my attention that lately, there is a person named summerlander who has been openly criticizing SSILD and myself on several forums, calling the technique a plagiarized version of Michael Raduga's "Indirect Methods" as well as referring me as "liars". I first found his post on Raduga's forum. After posting a reply to defend myself I got kicked out of the forum, without any warning and explanation, except a message saying "Get lost, you lying creep!" This person centered his attack on my use of the word "phase" in the SSILD document. He considers that an evidence of me stealing from Raduga who is supposed to be sole proprietor of this phrase. I replied by basically saying -- 1. You can't judge the technique by the word I chose to describe the phenomena, which has nothing to do with the technique itself. If you are going to call this technique a pirated version of something else then please compare the contents, not the words. 2. I did not adopt the phrase in my original documents which can be found in both Chinese, and on this forum under the title "A Practical Recipe for Inducing Lucid Dreams and OBEs." I only adopted the phrase during my revision of the tutorial in order to find a neutral word to describe the various phenomenon including LD, OBE, FA, etc. 3. I did not delete or edit any of the original SSILD-related postings, which are all here on this forum in their original form. Saying me "going to great lengths to get rid of the original descriptive document that he posted online" (quoted from summerlander) is beyond speculation, and really is vicious defamation. Unfortunately he chose to ignore the facts I provided and instead kicked me out of the forum, which action now led me suspect he might be in some way associated with Rudga's obe4u.com setup. That's fine with me since I got my chance to explain and defend myself at least to some degree. However, I later noticed that this person has been posting similar attacks on several other forums too. As such, I feel it is important to make clear my stance on this matter. I made a blog post about this but probably no one will see it, LOL. Since this thread is where I provide support to everyone interested in SSILD, I decided to publish my statement here as well -- The SSILD technique is NOT a derived work from Mr. Raduga's Indirect Method, period. It may be similar on surface, but it is sufficiently different from both fundamentals and technical details. In addition, as its creator, I did not have the intention to "clearly wanted to make a name for himself", quoting from this person. Whether in my native Chinese forums or the various western forums where I posted this technique, I have always remained anonymous, using solely my online screen names. Even during some of the online interviews I chose not to reveal my real world identity. Nor have I any vested commercial interests in the subject of lucid dreaming, unlike that of Mr. Raduga. Having said all that, I will leave you to judge by yourself. The technique is clearly explained (so is Raduga's) so you are welcome to compare them. All of my writings are here and some on LD4all, and they are all there in unaltered form. And if you have questions or doubts, please let me know and I will be happy to answer them, as always. Cheers

Originally Posted by Summerlander: And you are still lying. I've already explained the reasons why and it is not solely the usage of the terminology that I find you suspicious. Here is the evidence of what went on for all to see: OBE4U.com Forum • View topic - Plagiarism: "SSILD" taken from The Phase Guidebook The behaviour of a desperate man trying to save face... and his ego. I work with Michael Raduga at the OOBE Research Center and will not tolerate your conduct. How convenient that after all these years you remember to mention the author of indirect techniques and cycling when under questioning by several curious members of various cyber-societies. Whether it was originally written in Chinese or Japanese, it does not exempt you from suspicion or blame. And to use that as an excuse, or to even skew my reasoning behind it, is suspicious in itself. Any distinctions that you now make between what you and Raduga propound isn't proof of your authorship either. It is very easy to append to what others have put forth before, and worse, to claim to add something new when there is leeway for idiosyncrasies clearly outlined in The Phase Guidebook. Your earlier versions add nothing new. Your updates aren't something that the School of Out-of-Body Travel has overlooked either. -------- So you have followed me to this thread and indeed you are affiliated with Raduga! You made it appear as if I mentioned Raduga in this thread as an attempt to cover up when under questioning. But the truth is that I was simply answering those questions directly and I made it very clear that despite the similarities on the surface there are fundamental differences. I have given similar explanation when people asked what the differences are between SSILD and WILD, DILDS, MILD, and etc., and should I be blamed for stealing from those as well? As far as I can see, you made up in your mind that SSILD was stolen from Raduga and is blinded by ignorance and hatred, to the point you choose to ignore my clearly provided evidence and analysis. Your criticism is based entirely on speculation yet you did not heisitate to attack me with some most vicious words. I do not know who is more “desperate?” In my original text I had a disclaimer saying that people are free to treat SSILD as a new method or a clone of other methods because not everyone is able to see and appreciate some of the subtle differences. So yes you are free to think SSILD is a clone of Raduga's method (and I don't want to even bother to explain it anymore), but calling me liar is simply going too far. It's good you followed me here so people can have a good look at how malicious you, and possibly the "school" you represent, truly are. I still have a lot of respect to Mr. Raduga for his technical excellence but you have brought him nothing but disgrace.

Originally Posted by Summerlander: You have simply borrowed another man's ideas and decided to make a name for yourself by popularising a particular method under a different name. And what's with the extra "S" anyway. The fact that you get so defensive under questioning only highlights your culpability. This will haunt you and weigh on your conscience for a long time. You give off all the signs of a plagiarist. For the record, my egotistical friend, I did not follow you here. I've been a member of this site for a long time. But it is curious that you look your "own" method up online and that has led you to stumble upon my suspicions on OBE4u. Very noble of you to be defamatory straight away without producing one ounce of a good and convincing explanation. Good day, sir. -------- It shows you didn't even bother to go through the SSILD threads carefully because the reason of the double S was clearly explained in the first few pages. I'd expect someone who openly accuse me to such degree at least perform his homework -- study carefully the subject and get some hard evidence. Yet all you have done is throwing flames at me based entirely on suspicion. Now I may be defensive but why shouldn't I? Why should I be blamed for "crime" I did not commit? You sir, are not being reasonable, to say the least.

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw: As a result of this thread I read the first half of "The Phase" yesterday. First of all, the book is excellent. Second, I had been performing some of these techniques for many years. I hadn't thought of the idea of cycling however, which is genius. It seems to me as though SSILD was influenced by it, but I don't see plagiarism. It seems that Mr. Raduga uses the term "Phase" to consolidate lucid dreaming, OBE's and AP under one name without the need for mysticism. If such is the case, would he not want others to adopt the term? Of course, I may have missed some detail somewhere, but I don't see the techniques as being the same. One could actually use both Raduga's techniques and SSILD together to strengthen the practice. Just my two cents worth. -------- When I read Raduga's book I thought the use of the word "phase" is a pretty good one. While writing the revised version of the SSILD tutorial, I often needed to refer to this state(s) of consciousness, but I did not want to tie the technique with any particular belief system. As a result I adopted the "phase" term, and in a few occasions even defended it when questioned by a few people. After this incident though I think I'm going to take out this word from all my writings. Nothing against the concept, just some bad taste in the mouth. As for the cycling, while it may look similar to Raduga's, they are actually entirely different animals. Raduga uses these as a way to actively enter the "phase" (damn I'm using it again), and he makes no distinctions on what you use -- in fact, he has a whole slew of "techniques" for you to choose from in an a la carte fashion including some strange stuff like squeezing the brain. As you can see, these are "techniques" in their own rights, so basically his "cycling" is the rapid chaining of various "techniques". SSILD, on the other hand, was based on the Buddhism ideology of the "six senses" (thus the name). In my early document I claimed that no one knew why this stuff worked, particularly I was referring to a scientific explanation. The development of the technique though was not an accident. I figured, based on the Buddhism ideology, we might be able to get something to work by stimulating the various senses. It's not scientific, but it doesn't hurt to try! Initially I wanted to stimulate all six senses but that simply was not possible, especially the 6th one, LOL. Therefore I reduced it to the more basic 3, and tried it myself, and what do you know, it actually worked! I showed it to a member of my forum who at the same was struggling to get WILD to work, and within a few days it worked on him too! And that's how this stuff was developed, so no, it was NOT inspired by Raduga's work. Initially the technique was composed of rather long "stimulations" to the 3 senses, and ask the user to stay awake after performing the stimulations by occasionally glancing the darkness -- this can be seen in the very first version of the English text as well which was under the title "A practical recipe to induce LDs and OBEs". This, of course, had the side effect of causing insomnia for many people. It was then we decided to further reduce the length of each step to the point it became more "cycle"-like. Compare this with Raduga's cycles, we see fundamental differences: 1. Each step of the SSILD cycle is NOT a technique by itself, unlike that of Raduga's. 2. Each cycle is designed to target and only target the 3 senses, nothing else! They are chosen on purpose, not randomly. 3. The aim of the cycles is to fully stimulate the senses, not to succeed in entering a "phase" (now I hate myself). This last item was stressed since day one, and where do you see that mentioned in Raduga's texts? You don't because that's not how he intended his "cycles" to be used for, and that difference is crucial. Summerlander apparently does not understand either sides well enough for that he fails to identify this defining difference. Anyway, I'm tired of defending myself from this person since it appears that his mind is so fixed on his conspiracy stories beyond reason. I think I've explained myself and the SSILD technique clearly enough so readers have enough materials to make their own judgement call.

Originally Posted by VagalTone: There´s no authorship in lucid dreaming, nor even MILD or WILD, except devices like NovaDreamer and so on. This is as old as humanity. From young children to very old, frail people. Rich and poor. It´s ok to say this guy is the author of this or that, but in the end it doesn´t matter. -------- Very true. This is also one of the reasons I chose just to remain anonymous. And in fact, in the beginning I didn't even bother to call this a "technique", and instead referred to it as a "recipe".

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket: So I've tried this method for about two days in a row, and I like it very much so far Things I've noticed while using SSILD -Dream recall skyrockets -I get annoyed because the technique is too suddle(I like to expect something will happen) -I have a lot of trouble falling asleep after cycles and wbtb(I frequently check for FA's) -Although it's been taking a while to fall alseep I wake up feeling rested anyway Some thoughts I will continue with this technique because I haven't had much luck with the other techniques and my dream recall has been rather bad lately, and SSILD has improved that, It strange how this technique works and I notice how it's described as "setting off a time bomb, to go off in your dream" in the updated guide I don't really understand that quote and was hoping for some clearification, but I do believe this could be a great helping hand technique for beginners and I appreciate any input or advice from fellow SSILDers Thanks, -EmptyBucket -------- SSILD is sort of a hybrid of WILD and DILD techniques. I say that because it is possible for it to cause both types of dreams to happen. However, to use SSILD more effectively we should lean more on the DILD side, and treat WILD as solely a side effect. Now for DILD to happen of course we need to be dreaming/sleeping first. Thus the most important part of SSILD really is how quickly you can fall asleep after performing the exercise. The more quickly you fall asleep, the higher chance you will have at getting a DILD, FA, or suddenly awaken into an OBE (I hate to use this word but I'm now banned to use the other word I preferred, LOL). Of course there is no guarantee that SSILD will give you a DILD, but at least if you do it right it won't take you too long and you will have many more nights to try. On the other hand if you try too hard and end up not being able to sleep, then you will miss the opportunity of getting a DILD as well as precious sleep! For people who are just starting with this the hardest thing to do is not the technique itself, but "letting go". Having said all that, I want to add that SSILD is actually not a hit or miss type of technique once you learn it. It is almost guaranteed that after you do it you will run into some sort of FA or semi-FAs which you can utilize to turn into full blown LD experiences. Once you master this part it can give you near 100% success rate. I hope this helps. Cheers.

Originally Posted by gab: What do you know. What you are accusing cosmic iron from doing, you are doing yourself. This is a quote from your post, summerlander, from website I will not name. Simple search of the phrase will show anybody interested where it comes from. -------- You don't you say "I use the word 'phase' invented by Raduga." You say you call it that way. So what gives? And technically, yes, you did follow cosmic iron here. He joined in august and you in october. -------- Thank you gab. BTW, I did not join in August. In fact I had been on this forum for many more years but after I registered this account my other one got banned and deleted, LOL.

Originally Posted by LittleStar: How do I know if I'm concentrating or focusing on my closed eyelids, or if I'm looking at the blackness created by my mind? Or does it matter, along as I'm focusing othe visual? -------- Both are okay, actually. The only problem with the former is that you may end up causing a lot of stress to your eye muscle and become unable to sleep. To be able to use SSILD effectively, one really needs to understand the design philosophy behind it -- Lucid dream induction is largely a mental exercise, and therefore is rather delicate. Very subtle differences in what you do and the conditions can cause dramatic differences in the outcomes. SSILD was designed to minimize this issue. Instead of requiring a lot of finesse from the users, it goes the opposite, asking the users to perform each step without too much concern and effort. Basically, just DO it without thinking too much. I find that people who have difficulty with SSILD are usually the analytical type -- they tend to analyze too much, thus bringing in too much rational thoughts and discipline into the process. SSILD aims to be a "technique", not "art". Thus, you should really do the same. In Chinese we have a saying "Little monk reads sutras without heart, just the mouth." Now to do SSILD properly we need exactly that! LOL. So basically, it doesn't matter whether you are focusing or staring. Just do it! Better yet, do it without putting in too much effort. Originally Posted by LittleStar: Next, I don't seem very adept at switching between the cycles -------- Again, it's perfectly fine. In fact it is often a good sign. When this happens it means you are getting close to falling asleep. Just try to finish the required four sets and you are done. Don't worry if you got the orders wrong, or there are moments you completely blacked out. It's fine to get those senses overlapped too. I do that all the time. About the distraction you mentioned upon waking... I'm not sure I understand it correctly. Do you mean you see things while doing the exercise? If that's the case then you are encountering hypnagogia which is great! It means you are drifting into dreams while still being conscious. If they do get intense then just stop cycling and do an RC. Chances are you are already in a dream. Falling asleep while doing the exercise is okay too, but if fall asleep too quickly then you may not have warmed it up sufficiently for things to occur later. I suggest that you at least finish the 4 sets. If that becomes difficult then it's a sign you have not had sufficient sleep prior to that. In this case you should rest well before attempting the exercise. As for comparing to MILD, no, I'd say it is completely different. MILD, IMO, is almost exactly the opposite of SSILD. It is exactly the kind of problem SSILD tries to solve -- delicate mental exercise. In SSILD, you do NOT need any type of autosuggestions, visualizations, imaging things, etc. Just do the steps in the dumbest fashion and it will work! Do the opposite, you might as well go with the other techniques. I don't recommend mixing other techniques during SSILD, and I don't recommend stuff like meditation prior to doing SSILD. Those exercises are designed to put your mind into a specific state, which may not be optimal as a launching pad for SSILD. Stuff you do during the day doesn't really matter, for example, ADA. However, I'm always skeptical of their effectiveness... but that's another subject. I hope this helps. Good luck!

Originally Posted by Bobblehat: Why are you skeptical? (Feel free to reply in private or start another thread if you don't want to go off topic too much.) -------- Both from experience and observation. Recently we conducted a survey on our forum among more than 400 volunteers. Part of the survey is to compare how well some of the well-known techniques worked. The result is not favorable to ADA and similar techniques. The survey is by no means well designed and its very possible the result is erroneous. However I believe it does offer some useful references on this subject. I will not get into details here because I don't want to start a flame war. Your welcome to write me in private if you wish to discuss this subject.

Originally Posted by fogelbise: I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it. I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique). -------- This is so well put I have nothing more to add! I will redirect my answer to your post instead.

Originally Posted by fogelbise: I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it. I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique). -------- There are distinctions between active mind and those "dreamlets" (I love this word). The later, as you put it, is actually a good thing so there is no need to battle them. The former one though, is a major problem because it can keep you awake. I find that the more practice you have with SSILD, the more likely the cycles will help you quiet down those active thoughts so they are themselves instruments to help you relax. This, however, seems only true to people who have become used to the technique, not beginners. I still wouldn't advise mixing other techniques though because the state of our mind can be influenced by very subtle things. Therefore introducing extra ingredients may create dramatically different conditions. Who knows, they could be better than the one from SSILD, but for people who are just starting I'd advise against doing it. For those who are proficient with SSILD that's a different story of course. Experiment however you like and if you find a more effective combo by all means please let me know so we can improve this technique!

Originally Posted by Sageous: CosmicIron: Are you just referring to ADA, as you keep mentioning that, or any daytime practice? I ask because I've been meaning to start a thread that asks if maybe ADA is no help at all to LD'ing, and may even have negative effect, but had no interest in starting another "flame war" myself.... also I ask because I'm curious... Sorry to not ask this in a PM, but it seems enough people are interested to risk another break from your thread. -------- I'm referring to both actually, but in particular ADA because it is often seen by many as the "ultimate" so there are some really high expectations. One analogy I always like to use is the Jason Bourne story. In the first Bourne movie he demonstrated a very high level of awareness of his surroundings. I don't know if spies are really trained to be like that but if they are, then according to the ADA theory we will have many lucid dream masters among them. LOL.

Originally Posted by tofur: I didn't realize ssild required practice and time to perfect, it seems really straightforward to me. Whats the difference between a novice and experienced ssild-er? edit: does it usually take a bunch of repeated efforts before lucidity starts showing up? like a couple weeks of doing ssild with wbtb every night or something? -------- Some people saw success on the first try, and some simply never get it. As much as I wanted SSILD to be idiot-proof it is still far from reaching that goal. With more practice, one can indeed increase the success rate of SSILD. The amount of effort required also decrease as one becomes more proficient.

Originally Posted by LittleStar: Oh no, I didn't mean to sound negative I was merely saying that I think I found it more difficult than other methods, and I think the lack of concentration used for the cycles is the problem. I have a very narrow line between sleeping and wide awake. So I either wake up to much and my brain noise kicks in, so I don't sleep, or I fall asleep before the cycles are finished. It just going to take time to find the right balance between everything, and I think until I've found this median other methods ight be a little easier for me... That said,it could well be that I didn't give this enough time. I think ill have a break for a week or so, then try again, if I get the same results then I'll know a little more. All about experimentation at this point in time for me -------- The trick is NEVER to concentrate when doing SSILD. Do not attempt to see/feel anything during the cycles. They are necessary evils, just get them over with so you can go to sleep -- that's the right attitude.

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket: Well, I've been trying this for around a week now Results -No lucids -No false awakenings(at least I think?) -Dream recall is great(very happy about this) My style So sometimes when attempting techniques to induce LDs I'm either very excited to attempt it, but other times when doing techniques I'm kind of just in a "whatever" mindset(ie, it would be cool to have a lucid tonight but if not.. meh), It would be helpful if someone could tell me which mindset is most resourceful for lucid dreaming as I know mindsets are HUGE in success. But latey I've been waking up, doing the cycles somewhat carelessly and sometimes extremely carelessly, just kind of messing around with that. Every morning I wake up and I remember my dreams and it's starting to get rare that I remember nothing(which is awesome). Although, I've been having some moments where I feel like when I was in the dream I could've done something, like I was 1/4 conscious. Very hard to explain it just feels like the day following the dream I felt like I was close enough to attain lucidity. Some thoughts I enjoy doing this method but I'm hungering to attempt other methods such as WILD, but at the same time I feel like I should stick to this method as it's yielding better results than I've had with WILD, DILD(had 2 short lucid, idk bout this one). But I feel like this can also be a good stepping stone for beginners to increase recall and I would recommend this method to people with bad recall. -------- Your second approach is perfect. That's the way to do SSILD! However, I'm suspecting you might have overlooked some False Awakenings. Tell yourself to reality check every time you wake up after doing SSILD no matter how sure you are.

Originally Posted by tofur: just had a lengthy lucid and a FA via ssild last night. I'd say this was my 9th or 10th attempt, I was starting to have doubts. The FA was weird, the dream blacked out and I was "awake", but felt fuzzy. I plugged my nose and tried to breathe and it worked, I did it a few more times because it didn't make any sense, but then I like, forgot about it or something. Maybe the issue was I never opened my eyes. Weird. Lucidity wasn't as clear as it could've been. This is where I'm also curious as to the benefit of awareness practice. Can it lead to increased awareness once your lucid in a dream, is that a potential use for it? what do you guys do to increase your "waking consciousness" once you realize your dreaming? -------- IMO the fuzziness has nothing to do with awareness, but more to do with sleep cycles and other mind/body conditions. You can also perform some stabilization techniques to improve the quality, but if the conditions are not met then there is not much you can do.

Originally Posted by LittleStar: So, I have to assume that either this the doesn't work for me, or wasnt doing it right. I tried it for 4-5 days, I know it's not the lengthiest spell, but my recall in those days went down to near nothing, really just a vague image or two each night rather than any kind of full dream. I switched back to MILD with my usual mantras and mediation before sleep and immediately had much better recall. I am inclined to think that I just fail at SSILD, as so many people can't be wrong about the tech, but I think for me I needed the mantra to focus on dreaming before sleeping, rather than focusing in external factors. As some above posts suggest, it could be that I need to press through until I become a little more used to a different kind focusing, or perhaps need to return to this once I'm a little more proficient and experienced with lucidity in general. (as a side note, I dont seem to ever get that initial jolt of lucidity with a new and interesting tech that many people seem to get, perhaps I'm too analytical for that, or pessimistic(realistic), but that I would say is a big problem for me and new methods... Just not sure how to overcome it, and set my mind up for decent expectation of lucidity.) A quick point about the ADA, isn't want the thread to be hijacked by any means, but I would be interested in a thread about this, as I'm in the mind that ADA is the perfect tech, it makes sense to me that it should work, and I think I would attribute a lot of my lucid dreams to general awareness rather than a technique... In fact probably all (2 or 3) that weren't induced by fear. I would be very interested to hear other opinions and arguments, especially if there was experience fro the likes of Sageous weighing on the counter. -------- In the lucid dreaming world I often see people say things like "this makes a lot of sense to me so it's probably a good technique." I beg to differ. In fact, I often like to see it from exactly the opposite angle -- because it seems to make a lot of sense it's probably NOT a good technique. Please keep in mind we know very little about how the brain works and what consciousness/awareness truly are. In this case, the rules we see as "correct" or "make sense" may not apply at all! Techniques that are invented this way often leads to nothing.

Originally Posted by qaz741: Success! Been trying this for close to a week now and I just had my 2nd ever lucid, my 1st lucid being over a year ago. There were a couple of differences between last nights SSILD "routine" than my previous failed attempts which I think helped. Firstly, I was doing my ADA much more comprehensively yesterday compared to the previous days. Secondly, the WBTB yesterday was naturally rather than due to an alarm clock. This is how it went: I went to sleep at about 10:30pm and set the alarm for 3:00am which would have meant I would wake up 4.5hrs after. But I ended up waking up at 11:57pm, feeling hot for some reason. Since my sleep was disturbed, I thought Ill just cancel the alarm, have a proper sleep and try again tomorrow. So i cancelled the alarmed. But then I naturally woke back up 4:17am needing to take a mad piss. So I went straight to the toilet and straight back but I decided I might as well do the cycles now. I did the cycles, went to sleep, and had a long and vivid lucid dream. So what changed in my SSILD "routine" last night was that I woke up later than usual(4.17am compared to my usual 3:00am), and I also did the cycles differently. I kept reading CosmicIron saying on here that you need to do the cycles in a relaxed and not highly attentive matter but I just wasnt getting it and kept doing the cycles robotically. But last night, I decided that I would prioritize going back to sleep first and the cycles second. Meaning I was putting my main focus on going back to sleep and the cycles in the back of my head which kept me much more relaxed than usual. Of course by doing that, my mind kept drifting off but I would catch myself and continue the cycles. I ended up finishing about 3-4 decently long, albeit broken up due to my mind drifting off, cycles. So there it is.: The main reason I posted this though is to thank CosmicIron for all your input in this thread and for introducing us to this technique. Im going to need to keep at this technique for a little longer to really have faith in it, but so far so good. -------- Congratulations! What you described -- prioritizing on falling asleep instead of the cycles, is the perfect way to do SSILD. Now that you got the hang of it you will see more successes down the road for sure!

Originally Posted by rynkrt3: Was this method ever confirmed to be more than a placebo? After scrolling through all of the pages of replies and trying this myself, it seems that it is more of a placebo than a reliable technique to use nightly. -------- A placebo is something that has no real medical value but works due to perhaps psychological reasons. By this definition, you can probably say that all lucid dreaming techniques are placebos. You probably meant whether or not SsILD can be used reliably in long term. I'd say, based on my own experience and observations, it is more effective in long term than many other well-known methods. It is not difficult to find report on this forum which show people having success with this technique over a long period. On my own forum, there are more than a dozen people, myself included, who use the technique every day and succeed every time. All of these are well documented. If that's placebo, then placebo so be it. LOL