Senses Initiated Lucid Dream Ssild

This is a newbie question but I want to be sure about doing things right, so bear with me: How exactly do I "focus" on something? Like, when I do a cycle, I have to focus on my eyes - do I kind of imagine looking at my eyeballs from a third person perspective? Do I focus on the blackness itself? Do I try to find some flashing colors/lights in this darkness? Do I just have to think about my eyes/vision and not really try to "focus" on anything? For the ears part, I can simply focus on the light buzzing, so no problems there. But, for focusing on my body, I'm not sure what to do either. The first time I did this technique (due to excitement?) I did feel a falling/floating sensation, but it stopped after I stopped doing SSILD (I was on my 4th long cycle), and couldn't fall asleep after that for a long time. Never had that sensation again, so I'm not sure what I should focus on. Just my pillow resting on my arms? Trying to feel gravity pulling my body into the bed? Also, my sleep schedule is pretty messed up (due to summer I guess..), and often times it's really hard to get a WBTB in. How long should I stay up for? I tried doing 30mins first, but it took me 2 hours to fall asleep after that and doing 4 cycles of SSILD. Today, on the other hand, I just got up and walked around for 6 minutes, then did SSILD - but this seems to be too short of an awake-time, since I had trouble focusing on SSILD. I tried not focusing, and letting those soothing thoughts lull me to sleep, but my mind seemed to get "conscious" of the fact that it's falling asleep, and "snap back" to awake mode. I think in the end I tried doing more SSILD and keeping focus instead of letting my thoughts go wild, and fell asleep that way. So is there supposed to be some sweet spot for the length of a WBTB? Thanks.

I think of focusing as giving your attention to something. Just place your awareness on it. So, when being aware of the body, I simply am aware of what it feels like to have a body. I feel the points of the floor touching my shoulder blades, feet, hands, etc., and the heaviness of the body. It's about experiencing it, and not thinking about it. Hopefully that makes sense. I had a similar falling sensation this morning while practicing, so I think you are fine. As for WBTB, there is no real sweet spot (at least I do not think so). I usually do enough to DJ and get some water (takes around 30 minutes -- yikes!) and then go back to bed. Normally do this in the dark so I don't get too awake, as I can have trouble dropping off again.

Originally Posted by ThreeCat: I think of focusing as giving your attention to something. Just place your awareness on it. So, when being aware of the body, I simply am aware of what it feels like to have a body. I feel the points of the floor touching my shoulder blades, feet, hands, etc., and the heaviness of the body. It's about experiencing it, and not thinking about it. Hopefully that makes sense. -------- So.. are there any actual/physical things you can place awareness on when focusing on your eyes? I mean, with focusing on your body, you can, as you said, focus on your shoulders, feet, hands, which is similar to what I was doing.. But I can't seem to find a more direct thing to focus on with eyes. Not sure what you mean by 'experiencing it'.

If you close your eyelids and press gently against your eyes you'll start to see swirling patterns of transparent sparks and shapes. There should always be something like this 'visible' with eyes closed - it just becomes a lot more apparent if you press on your eyelids. These patterns are what you focus on or look for. Sometimes it's hard to see them at first, because you think all you see with your eyes closed is blackness, but they're there - they're just extremely subtle until you slip into a very relaxed state, by which time normally you're not paying attention to such things. What you'll notice if you're ever able to remain aware through the transition (WILD) is that it's these swirling random patterns that form themselves into dream imagery, at first very transparently. I was able to witness it once and it was amazing - at first the random patterns resolved themselves into an image of a field, but still very transparent, it actually looked very similar to reflections seen on a window at night , so that things are rather colorless and very low contrast. The fact that it became a recognizable image grabbed my attention and as I looked at it it became quickly more solid and real, and then it began to move, drifting sideways past me as if I were looking out the window of a car at a field while moving slowly past it. This then became a dream in which I was in a car being driven by my dad.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters: If you close your eyelids and press gently against your eyes you'll start to see swirling patterns of transparent sparks and shapes. There should always be something like this 'visible' with eyes closed - it just becomes a lot more apparent if you press on your eyelids. These patterns are what you focus on or look for. Sometimes it's hard to see them at first, because you think all you see with your eyes closed is blackness, but they're there - they're just extremely subtle until you slip into a very relaxed state, by which time normally you're not paying attention to such things. What you'll notice if you're ever able to remain aware through the transition (WILD) is that it's these swirling random patterns that form themselves into dream imagery, at first very transparently. I was able to witness it once and it was amazing - at first the random patterns resolved themselves into an image of a field, but still very transparent, it actually looked very similar to reflections seen on a window at night , so that things are rather colorless and very low contrast. The fact that it became a recognizable image grabbed my attention and as I looked at it it became quickly more solid and real, and then it began to move, drifting sideways past me as if I were looking out the window of a car at a field while moving slowly past it. This then became a dream in which I was in a car being driven by my dad. -------- Interesting.. I haven't gotten around to trying WILD yet, but in the SSILD tutorial it says that you're not really supposed to see anything.. I guess it's fine if I accidentally do get a WILD though LOL

Originally Posted by Darkmatters: If you close your eyelids and press gently against your eyes you'll start to see swirling patterns of transparent sparks and shapes. There should always be something like this 'visible' with eyes closed - it just becomes a lot more apparent if you press on your eyelids. These patterns are what you focus on or look for. Sometimes it's hard to see them at first, because you think all you see with your eyes closed is blackness, but they're there - they're just extremely subtle until you slip into a very relaxed state, by which time normally you're not paying attention to such things. What you'll notice if you're ever able to remain aware through the transition (WILD) is that it's these swirling random patterns that form themselves into dream imagery, at first very transparently. I was able to witness it once and it was amazing - at first the random patterns resolved themselves into an image of a field, but still very transparent, it actually looked very similar to reflections seen on a window at night , so that things are rather colorless and very low contrast. The fact that it became a recognizable image grabbed my attention and as I looked at it it became quickly more solid and real, and then it began to move, drifting sideways past me as if I were looking out the window of a car at a field while moving slowly past it. This then became a dream in which I was in a car being driven by my dad. -------- Wow I learned alot from that DarkMatters, this will help alot with my journies is SSILD or WILD. Itll give me something too focus on now instead of just sitting there

I feel a need to clarify something: SSILD is a form of WILD, or better yet a technique for achieving WILD. They are not two different things. WILD is not a technique but rather, as Darkmatters noted above, it is the description of the transition from wake to sleep without losing waking-life self-awareness. SSILD is a technique for enabling WILD transitions, so when you have a successful SSILD, you have also had a successful WILD. This in no way is meant to belittle SSILD, which is a fine technique. I just think it is a good idea, and ultimately a lot less confusing, to remember that there are two basic pathways to LD's: WILD and DILD. They are not techniques but conditions of consciousness; the techniques (like SSILD or MILD) are what you employ to achieve WILD's and DIILD's. Just sayin' -------- [I have a feeling I said this before on this thread, but I can't remember... all apologies to OP for repetitious intrusions!]

Originally Posted by Cubellius: Interesting.. I haven't gotten around to trying WILD yet, but in the SSILD tutorial it says that you're not really supposed to see anything.. I guess it's fine if I accidentally do get a WILD though LOL -------- I'm not quite sure what this means - maybe you were referring to my description? I did describe visuals that transitioned into a dream - I didn't mean that's necessarily what's supposed to happen with SSILD - I was simply using a story to clarify the type of visuals you're looking for behind the eyelids.

Originally Posted by Cubellius: How long should I stay up for? I tried doing 30mins first, but it took me 2 hours to fall asleep after that and doing 4 cycles of SSILD. Today, on the other hand, I just got up and walked around for 6 minutes, then did SSILD - but this seems to be too short of an awake-time, since I had trouble focusing on SSILD. I tried not focusing, and letting those soothing thoughts lull me to sleep, but my mind seemed to get "conscious" of the fact that it's falling asleep, and "snap back" to awake mode. I think in the end I tried doing more SSILD and keeping focus instead of letting my thoughts go wild, and fell asleep that way. So is there supposed to be some sweet spot for the length of a WBTB? -------- There's no hard and fast rule for how long WBTBs should last: it's different for every person, and to make matters more complicated, for every person it might be different from night to night. The best you can do is develop a feel for how easy or hard it is for you generally to fall back asleep after a given amount of waking stimulus, and plan accordingly. I've also frequently had the experience like the one you describe: when I do a WBTB followed by a deliberate attempt to induce a WILD, I will come very close to real sleep and then "snap back" to waking consciousness. At this point I usually get disappointed and "give up" on my attempt, turning to the position in which I will fall asleep most easily and no longer attempting to accomplish anything... but it turned out that this is the pattern that has led the most often to successful WILDs. So whether you're using SSILD or some other technique, you might initially try some sort of intensive practice that will induce the trance-like state, then if you find yourself snapping back to wakefulness, "give up" and let yourself go to sleep without further ritual. In my experience, this is by no means a foolproof or reliable technique, but it has led to a fair number of WILDs.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters: I'm not quite sure what this means - maybe you were referring to my description? I did describe visuals that transitioned into a dream - I didn't mean that's necessarily what's supposed to happen with SSILD - I was simply using a story to clarify the type of visuals you're looking for behind the eyelids. -------- Ah I see, I think I misunderstood the OP as I thought you're supposed to NOT see those colored patterns. This makes a lot more sense now, and I think I know what to do from now on. Thank you for your description.: Originally Posted by Verre: There's no hard and fast rule for how long WBTBs should last: it's different for every person, and to make matters more complicated, for every person it might be different from night to night. The best you can do is develop a feel for how easy or hard it is for you generally to fall back asleep after a given amount of waking stimulus, and plan accordingly. I've also frequently had the experience like the one you describe: when I do a WBTB followed by a deliberate attempt to induce a WILD, I will come very close to real sleep and then "snap back" to waking consciousness. At this point I usually get disappointed and "give up" on my attempt, turning to the position in which I will fall asleep most easily and no longer attempting to accomplish anything... but it turned out that this is the pattern that has led the most often to successful WILDs. So whether you're using SSILD or some other technique, you might initially try some sort of intensive practice that will induce the trance-like state, then if you find yourself snapping back to wakefulness, "give up" and let yourself go to sleep without further ritual. In my experience, this is by no means a foolproof or reliable technique, but it has led to a fair number of WILDs. -------- Thanks for the tips, I guess I will keep experimenting with WBTB length.

Originally Posted by Sageous: SSILD is a form of WILD, or better yet a technique for achieving WILD. They are not two different things. WILD is not a technique but rather, as Darkmatters noted above, it is the description of the transition from wake to sleep without losing waking-life self-awareness. SSILD is a technique for enabling WILD transitions, so when you have a successful SSILD, you have also had a successful WILD. This in no way is meant to belittle SSILD, which is a fine technique. I just think it is a good idea, and ultimately a lot less confusing, to remember that there are two basic pathways to LD's: WILD and DILD. They are not techniques but conditions of consciousness; the techniques (like SSILD or MILD) are what you employ to achieve WILD's and DIILD's. -------- Good post! I'd add one more point, just to make sure things are clear as far as SSILD is concerned: SSILD actually tends to cause more DILDs than it does WILDs, particularly for newer practitioners. I've done a good bit of SSILDing and the great majority of successes led me down the DILD pathway. So the summary is that SSILD can lead you down either pathway (WILD or DILD), with DILD being the more common. Of course, lucid is lucid, so we're happy with whatever we can get!

Another amazing success with SSILD last night, this time culminating in a straightforward WILD. It's too soon to gauge the success rate of this technique for me, but I would estimate that so far I'm at two successes out of three real attempts. However, the technique is so easy and casual that it can be hard to differentiate between a "real attempt" versus "I'll just think about this in a half-assed way as I'm falling asleep." What particularly impresses me about SSILD is the incredible clarity of the dreams that it has produced. And on this occasion, the clarity extended throughout the whole process of falling asleep: the first three full paragraphs in my dream report (see my dream journal) consist of all the impressions I had before the dream actually started! This is markedly different from most of the WILDs I've had before, which usually involve a vague period of unconsciousness before I snap back to myself and realize I've made the transition. And even then the integration is often poor and requires a lot of work to "clean up" before I can do anything more interesting. Often I find myself half-waking and having to DEILD back into them, sometimes up to four or five times. This was a totally different experience: clean, clear, and conscious, so much so that it took a long time before I finally even realized I was asleep!

I've noticed for myself that SSILD is only really successful if I stay up for at least 10 or 15 minutes, otherwise my brain isn't awake enough and I can't concentrate on doing the cycles. However, when I do that it usually takes me a pretty long time to fall back asleep, yet I have a pretty much 100% success rate with LDs. If I continue to practice the technique in this fashion will I eventually be able to fall asleep more quickly, since the technique is meant to make you fall asleep in some sense? To be fair, I've also noticed that even if I stay up for just 3 or 5 minutes, even though the technique is way more difficult and I don't get lucid dreams, I still tend to stay up for a while afterwards. What would you recommend? Also, for you or other people very experienced with the technique, how much extra sleep do you actually need when doing it at this point vs. when you were starting out? Thanks!

I will chime in and help where I can. Originally Posted by solpic: Also, for you or other people very experienced with the technique, how much extra sleep do you actually need when doing it at this point vs. when you were starting out? Thanks! -------- I am usually able to fall asleep quicker than when I first started using SSILD. Early on, I saved many of my attempts to the weekends when I could sleep in. The good news is that I also found that when it took me longer to get back to sleep, it seemed to increase my odds of becoming lucid. Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara: I had two periods of SSILD working powerfully but then it just stopped working completely. I'm altering it to be more of a WILD anchor and seeing what happens. -------- I see nothing wrong with experimenting but I just wanted to add a note to anyone else reading this saying that they should be aware that this doesn't have to be the result for you. I have been using it for about 18 months and it was almost always used on nights when I had lucid dreams. I do ly feel that my day practices are also an important part of this continued success. My day practices include Sageous' self awareness work which I feel is an important key to my practices. Originally Posted by HeWhoShapes: Just a quick question: Is it ok to use SSILD with a WILD anchor that I have as a backup if SSILD fails? -------- The author's instructions suggest not adding anything to it...to just do the cycles and then go to sleep. If you fall into a WILD while doing it (and I have), then great! You could always try out what you are proposing and then go back to normal SSILD if your experimentation doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara: What reasons' could anybody surmise as to why it has stopped working for me, after being the most powerful method I've attempted yet for a week? -------- I had the same problem. It gave me LDs at first, then only better recall, then no difference to just normally going to sleep. Because nobody knows how it works, it's all guesswork.

Well, come to think of it, because of the ease of the method and powerful effects, SSILD probably has much to offer still. It seems like the adepts on this site have focused on 1-3 main methods and have tweaked them to the point where they made the techniques work for them personally. For me, MILD, WILD and the other variations have done very little except give me very infrequent weak LD's maybe once every other week. And I mean those dreams where you realize you're dreaming but are still stuck in a haze. And that was with constant effort compared to how little I put towards SSILD to achieve full lucidity multiple times. There must be some sort of habituation going on here, where the technique becomes another habit. Meditators fall into this problem frequently. Where it ends up being another mental habit with not results. There have got to be ways to tweak it when it stops working.

Originally Posted by Bobblehat: I had the same problem. It gave me LDs at first, then only better recall, then no difference to just normally going to sleep. Because nobody knows how it works, it's all guesswork. -------- But we do know how it works: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...sild-work.html

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara: Well, come to think of it, because of the ease of the method and powerful effects, SSILD probably has much to offer still. It seems like the adepts on this site have focused on 1-3 main methods and have tweaked them to the point where they made the techniques work for them personally. -------- You may be on to something. I did also tweak it after maybe 20 or so LDs and just recently experimented with a different tactile sense but went back to my original tactile sense. ...compared to how little I put towards SSILD to achieve full lucidity multiple times. -------- That is what I have seen in many people's experiences. For many people, it seems to be a straightforward way to capture some LDs. Originally Posted by Ctharlhie: But we do know how it works: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...sild-work.html -------- I saw a couple of good theories on that link, including yours at the top. Just the other day I was telling one of the DILD students that SSILD has a kind of meditative effect for me. If it works because it gets more people to meditate during WBTB, I see nothing wrong with that...but I think it is a little more than that...perhaps combining a type of meditation with heightened awareness of the three senses that it deals with...basically along the lines of what Memm said in your thread linked above.

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara: What reasons' could anybody surmise as to why it has stopped working for me, after being the most powerful method I've attempted yet for a week? [...] There must be some sort of habituation going on here, where the technique becomes another habit. Meditators fall into this problem frequently. Where it ends up being another mental habit with not results. There have got to be ways to tweak it when it stops working. -------- Same thing here! What brought me back to DV recently was my frustration with a long dry spell. I came across the SSILD and FILD threads and had great initial successes with both, which then quickly tapered off again. I suspect habituation is a big part of it. There must be some way to cultivate the right mental state, but until I figure it out, it's back to the old hour-long WBTBs, I guess!

Originally Posted by Bobblehat: Also - don't forget - many people report difficulties getting back to sleep after performing SSILD then reports LDs once they get back to sleep. In this case, SSILD gets the credit when it's clearly just a WBTB success. -------- I tend to belong to this camp of thought on SSILD, not entirely, but most of the way. If you're awake, intending to lucid dream, and can hang your awareness somewhere so you can do this while you return to sleep, well that's great. Even if that's all that SSILD is, a particular mental anchor, then it's still something useful! In the end, does it really matter that "SSILD works" or not as long as the end result is lucidity? At the very least, it's a concrete series of steps to place your awareness while falling back to sleep intending to lucid dream.

Originally Posted by FryingMan: I tend to belong to this camp of thought on SSILD, not entirely, but most of the way. If you're awake, intending to lucid dream, and can hang your awareness somewhere so you can do this while you return to sleep, well that's great. Even if that's all that SSILD is, a particular mental anchor, then it's still something useful! In the end, does it really matter that "SSILD works" or not as long as the end result is lucidity? At the very least, it's a concrete series of steps to place your awareness while falling back to sleep intending to lucid dream. -------- I would refer everyone to another of my threads where I discuss that the question of 'which technique' really doesn't matter compared to intent, but that would be starting to get egotistical.