Lding Is Not Supernatural, There Are No Shadow Men. Its Jus

There are people who doesn't know why SP happens and they see shadow man, there are also some people who know the scientific reason but still see a shadow man. It's just about a person's own fears, saying "that's not real, that's about you" for one time is fine but saying it over and over again is a bit rude to people who are having scary things in their SP's and who can't stop it even if they know the reason. Changing something in your subconscious is hard, we should respect each other's fears. And don't take this as an aggressive message. Your post is fine but I saw some people calling hallucinations bullshit. That doesn't seem like bullshit to people who can't do anything about it

That's the thing - to your mind/senses they ARE real. The effects dreaming produces are nearly the same as if you were experiencing the event while awake. It's why it feels so real even though you know it doesn't actually exist. This is taken from the book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming > The experiments just reviewed supported the conclusion that the events you experience while asleep and > dreaming produce effects on your brain (and, to a lesser extent, your body) much the same as if you were to > experience the corresponding events while awake.

Good post. When you have very limited actual experience with LD and other altered states of consciousness, which is the case for most people, it can be really difficult to come to an educated conclusion of their natures. However, once we're able to experience them more frequently we begin to see through their mysteries and learn the subtle properties. Then we are able to tell what they truly are.

And since when did this community refuse to discuss anything except 100% materialist reductionist science? To say that sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming have no spiritual significance is terrifyingly ignorant in my opinion. Just because things exist in the space of the imagination doesn't make them unscientific or false. They are real in their own way. Could the widespread reports of the "shadow people" in sleep paralysis reflect some subconscious monster archetype? Or perhaps the evolutionary remnant of a real fear that our ancestors dealt with to survive? Do you *know* that there is no spiritual connection with lucid dreaming? How can you claim there is nothing else there besides biology? How do you know that the realm of consciousness we exist in during a lucid dream isn't as real as waking life? We don't understand the relationship between biology and consciousness. It's dishonest to pretend to.

People love to come up with spiritual explanations for a simple scientific one. That is human ignorance and imagination that has been invoked since the time of Zeus. The believe in shadow people, or lucid dreaming having to do with spiritual connection, was silly at best, and not supported by evidence at worst. I *know* the evidence suggests that Shadow people are just images the brain throws up when your falling asleep, to lull you into a hypotonic sleeping state. I *know* there is no rational explanation for shadow people. And I *know* that our dreams are constructions of our mind in the most literal sense, and thus not spiritual. The only thing I will give you, is I don't know if the realm of consciousness when we lucid dream is any less real then when we are in waking life. As the mind is set to make reality in waking life, just as it does in our dream. But it is sure as heck obvious that if anything is a figment of imagination, then shadow men are, just as much as our dreams. It is dishonest to pretend as if any rational explanation of the lucid dreaming process would point to shadow people being something real in connection with the waking day world. When there is nothing at all to suggest that shadow people and spirituality have anything to do with the lucid dream world, other then confusion about the way the brain works when it is falling asleep. Shadow people are as real as your imagination, its not, and the only thing that you could even attempt to say is that our minds in the waking day world might make reality much like a dream world is made, and thus, shadow people are a real thing your mind imagines, but they are not real in connection with reality as human experience it from a Newtonian point of view. Or in other words, shadow people are not real, lucid dream is not a spiritual thing, and the closet to real you can make thing sound is an assumption that reality in the waking world is made by our minds, and since shadow people are made by our minds, it is real, but only real in the sense of the imaginary world within our heads, and not within waking day reality that we all experience day in and day out when we are awake.

You are not helping anyone by spouting some silly nonsense and telling people to mediate. This is science, not spirituality. You are not thinking with any part of your brain. There is no shadow people, this is not some spiritual plan, all evidence and common sense says this is just straight up biology of the brain.

I simply have an open mind. You think your brain actually knows anything relevant to the truth... if anything we are fish Trapped in a fish bowl.. we can only know so much and anything else is skepticism, belief, and only what we can understand with our minds.. there is a mind greater than ours, and I'm sure billions of galaxies can prove that fact

It doesn't make you smarter than other people to point out the materialistic nature of experience. You could make this same argument about anything spiritual, not just lucid dreaming visions. That doesn't make spirituality any less important to the people who experience it. There's more to life than science and explanation, not to even get into the philosophical (EDIT: and scientific) issues with "objective truth" (you ironically reference Newtonian physics, which is itself a very limited paradigm). Many esoteric traditions are ruined by rationalization. If somebody experiences something deeply personal that has little to no effect on the outside world, is it more "important" that their symbolic interpretation of it is shot down, or that they believe whatever they choose and be enriched by it? I am a 100% materialist btw, don't believe in God, angels, ghosts, visitors, any of it. It doesn't matter.

You don't seem to care much about evidence. All evidence points to lucid dreaming being a natural phenomena that has to due with the biology of our brains, with that said, LD's are not some supernatural spirit world filled with angles and demons from heaven and hell, and shadow people are just our brains calling up images to trick us into sleep or are caused by such said tricks.

Right.... When I was a child, and would enter SP, I thought I had a mental issue or something. As I got older, I grew more informed of the sleeping process, and began to guess SP was a natural thing that happened. Research showed me that the body does instead freeze itself when it sleeps, that same resource mentioned lucid dreaming, and thus I researched that, using direct testing as well as reading others input.

Magic is just science that people haven't figured out how to study yet (largely because it usually requires faith to work, and that kind of bias makes it hard to get objective, repeatable results). There is a lot we don't know about perception and how it ties into the nature of reality, or what reality even is. So OP is probably right, but so are you. Just filtering it through different lenses.

Save me the bitter attitude you got. I don't have time for 17 year olds. If someone believes Zeus is throwing lighting at them, because they almost got hit by lighting, and they connect that to cheating on their wife, then ya, id say it is important to shoot down their "symbolic interpretation", because all evidence suggests ITS NOT TRUE. And if it does not effect the outside world? Still id say its more important to point out all evidence suggests ITS NOT TRUE. Living in ignorance only makes more ignorance.