Lding Is Not Supernatural, There Are No Shadow Men. Its Jus

I have been lucid dreaming for 10 years +. There is no shadow men, this is not some spiritual thing. It is just biology and science. You fall sleep, your body freezes up to prevent sleep walking, your mind makes hypnotic images and sounds to lull you to sleep. Your mind then makes the world around you, like any dream, except you have awareness and control of it due to conscious input. That's it.

Yeah right, shadow man

Who knew this guy had answer to all the worlds mysteries? so wise one where did the materials that made up the Big Bang come from? Just curious since you seem to know answer to thing that none of us know like why we dream. Sure its likely not to be spiritual but who are you to say it not with no evidence to back that up.

That's your opinion of it, and that's great you've been able to make up your mind about something that many people struggle with and deal with on a regular basis. For all we know, something occurs in our brain when we lucid dream, that allows us to be more sensitive to different 'dimensions', allowing us to see things we'd otherwise not see. One of the worst things someone could do is advertise their theory as if its the eight answer especially when the topic is something like lucid dreaming or shadow beings.

There are people who doesn't know why SP happens and they see shadow man, there are also some people who know the scientific reason but still see a shadow man. It's just about a person's own fears, saying "that's not real, that's about you" for one time is fine but saying it over and over again is a bit rude to people who are having scary things in their SP's and who can't stop it even if they know the reason. Changing something in your subconscious is hard, we should respect each other's fears. And don't take this as an aggressive message. Your post is fine but I saw some people calling hallucinations bullshit. That doesn't seem like bullshit to people who can't do anything about it

I don't think it's a case of whether it's real or not, in that moment your instincts take over because it seems so real even though you know it's not.

And since when did this community refuse to discuss anything except 100% materialist reductionist science? To say that sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming have no spiritual significance is terrifyingly ignorant in my opinion. Just because things exist in the space of the imagination doesn't make them unscientific or false. They are real in their own way. Could the widespread reports of the "shadow people" in sleep paralysis reflect some subconscious monster archetype? Or perhaps the evolutionary remnant of a real fear that our ancestors dealt with to survive? Do you *know* that there is no spiritual connection with lucid dreaming? How can you claim there is nothing else there besides biology? How do you know that the realm of consciousness we exist in during a lucid dream isn't as real as waking life? We don't understand the relationship between biology and consciousness. It's dishonest to pretend to.

I've had guns pointed at me and threatened on more than one occasion. I've never felt more a more intense fear than when experiencing SP and seeing the "shadow people". Once you are experiencing SP, "objective reality" doesn't matter. What you intellectually see as "real" (claiming it's biology, blah blah blah) is not what you experience. We are men and women STUCK in our bodies and therefore we are both objective and subjective. You cannot escape a subjective experience. If you discount subjectivity you are half a person. Objective reality is only half of the story. Edit: another commenter put it perfectly: "just because something exists in yor imagination doesn't make it false. Its real in its own way". I LEARNED this from experiencing SP. I couldn't discard one of the most intense experiences of my life as "not real" because it had only happened to me.

>There is no shadow men, this is not some ~~spiritual~~ supernatural thing. That's better, as "spiritual" is entirely subjective.

It's interesting you sound so sure of yourself. I'm curious though how you can explain a dream story being played out. Also you generically say your mind makes hypnotic images which is true, but obviously we all have various parts of our mind. It's been established that the subconscious part of our mind creates this imagery and experiences. Can you explain it's process, or reason to create specific images, or do you think it's just random. If it is random how can some dreams be so clear and detailed? I'm 30 and have been LDing for as long as I can remember. I obviously have my own opinions on the matter, but I'd like a different perspective from you since you are very sure. I'd also like to know how you came to these conclusions. Did you perform any standardized tests?

You are incorrect. LDing is real magic.

Your statement is very shortsighted. Assume the grand total of human knowledge can fit into the space the size of a period. >>>>> . <<<<<<<< And the total possible information about existance and conciousness could fit on a piece of paper w meters wide and l meters long. We couldn't possibly know the dimensions of the paper and may never know. It's possible our organic bodies can't comprehend what is possible, which seems plausible since we already know that there is a lot to the universe our senses cannot perceive. To say that lucid dreaming and aspects of it are nothing but biology 'because...uh.....biology' is as puerile as saying that the world was made because God said so.

I agree with you that this all involves a biological, scientific method to make but it never stopped me from having a spiritual feeling towards it anyways. I don't look at something like ice cream, and not have a wonderful feeling towards it based on it's science, I have a wonderful, god thanking feeling because it's scientifically possible. I don't outright believe in magic, but I do believe with proper, logical processes, we can achieve something just as amazing.

Just because something is material doesnt mean it cant be spiritual

Hey man, I've been reading this whole thread and I feel bad for you because none of these other comments are being fair. But hey man, I understand where you're coming from, and you're right. However, you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into in the first place! Don't let them keep you down bro, stay rational

I dont think making assumptions like that are really justified because we really dont know why we dream or what that place is when were sleeping. It could very well be a different realm our consciousness is transported to with entities. We dont know so saying we know what this is its just your mind sending off different signals dosnt prove anything other than when your sleeping your mind sends off signals.

What do you even mean by spiritual? Spiritual doesn't mean supernatural. If anything, I would say it means working with phenomena that are, at our current capability of observation, subjective. Such things are at the moment outside the scope of hard objective science. In fact, you can never find proof that the whole world, including all the laws of nature, isn't simply your subjective dream. I find lucid dreaming deeply spiritual, but that does not mean it would break the apparent rules of this world in any way.

There is nothing settled about the nature of consciousness. Sorry, you have been misled.

Well I would suppose we would need to discuss what your definition is of a spiritual thing. If you don't believe spirituality is a something that exists, and if you are a material reductionist, then sleeping and waking life are neither spiritual things. Conversely, you could suppose that spiritual things can and do happen while we wake but dreams only represent a biological process being enacted. If spiritual experiences are possible in the world, and yours and my definition of what that means are close enough to each other, then we can have a meaningful discussion about what actually constitutes reality to our brains and minds. On the other hand, if you do not believe spiritual experiences are things that actually exist in the world, or what you mean by spiritual experiences is vastly different than what I mean, then we can have no meaningful discussion on this topic. I have had spiritual experiences while lucid dreaming that defy explanation and could not been possible in waking life. Can this be proven scientifically; no, as nothing truly spiritual can. If you have been lucid dreaming for ten plus years, I have a very difficult time accepting that nothing spiritual has happened to you in that time period.

There is some kind of fallacy presented here. You write "it's just biology and science" as if dreaming is understood by science, but it is not. Knowing the outward effects of dreaming is different than knowing why our brain dreams, or what determines the contents. Let alone the biology of lucid dreaming. As far as I'm concerned lucid dreaming is one of the biggest challenges to modern consciousness theory and there is no way you can call this straight science.

Good post. When you have very limited actual experience with LD and other altered states of consciousness, which is the case for most people, it can be really difficult to come to an educated conclusion of their natures. However, once we're able to experience them more frequently we begin to see through their mysteries and learn the subtle properties. Then we are able to tell what they truly are.

People really need to experience it more, first hand. You won't know water better than a fish, unless you become one yourselves, LOL. Interestingly though, you actually do achieve more LDs if you follow a more systematic and scientific path! I personally agree with OP. There are more benefits to be gained if one approaches lucid dreaming scientifically. Associating lucid dreams with religious or spiritual meanings, I won't say it's right or wrong, but it does make one more prone to the trickery of the subconscious mind.

Sounds like you're afraid of Shadow Men coming to get you and are posting this to help validate a desperate attempt at pretending they're not GOING TO KILL YOU

And you are just full of your ego and so keep filling it up with your personal beliefs. No one really cares about your one perspective. Left vs right brained.. always a challenge

You may be right, but I view them as spiritual. There are too many sightings when not in sleep paralysis to count them as figments of the imagination. Though I am open minded and free to hear explanations.

>There is no >this is not >It is just >That's it. Somebody needs to learn some basic rules of logic and assertions.

I could not agree more. There is nothing supernatural about lucid dreaming. Zero.

You are stating that based on interpretations of: . Which may be meaningful or may be complete nonsense. You don't have the right frame of reference to make a solid determination one way or the other.

You cant explain anything in total by just using one perspective whether its the esoteric point of view or the exoteric (science). Thats it.

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